We are very excited to present the first interview of The Awakened Organization! We chat with Carolina Miranda about her work as a consultant with Cultivating Capital.
We are very excited to present the first interview of The Awakened Organization! We chat with Carolina Miranda about her work as a consultant with Cultivating Capital. She shares how she helps organizations bring about a more just and peaceful world by supporting businesses in implementing better social and environmental practices.
We talk about what inspired her to start her own consulting firm, her personal and business aspirations and how the B Corp world has changed in the past 5 years.
Carolina's one policy or procedure she thinks every company, B Corp or not, should have: "Living wage is key. I think everybody should be paying a living wage. It's basically what a person needs to earn to be able to have their basic needs for like food and shelter met in a given area."
To contact Carolina, visit her website: Cultivating Capital or on LinkedIn
To contact Peter on LinkedIn from KarmaDharma Creative Marketing Agency
To contact Jeremy on LinkedIn from DeepNet IT Consulting
If you want to be featured on the show, or you know someone who should, feel free to contact us podcast@karmadharma.ca
Intro: Welcome to The Awakened Organization.
Jeremy Stayton: I'm ready to go.
Peter Georgariou: You go.
Jeremy Stayton: Welcome to The Awakened Organization. I'm Peter and...
Peter Georgariou: I'm Jeremy.
Jeremy Stayton: Awesome. Shit... Let's do it again. Welcome to The Awakened Organization. I'm Jeremy.
Peter Georgariou: And I'm Peter.
Jeremy Stayton: We have the honour and the pleasure to meet genuinely awesome business owners and people humans who are living in a way that is more sustainable, equitable and just.
Peter Georgariou: So we have the honour and privilege of meeting today with Carolina Miranda of Cultivating Capital, who has been helping B Corps for the last close to a decade being a strong B Corp herself. And we're going to dive into all the nooks and crannies of becoming a B Corp, the advantages, the success stories, and the amazing thing and work that people are putting back into the world, being of service.
Jeremy Stayton: And she shares some of the inspirations along the way, talking with amazing leaders who have changed the way they do things just from going through B Corp assessment. She'll give us a bit of a background because she's so intimate with B Corps, around the governance B Lab and all about them. And also how she got started, how she got into it and how she turned from potentially a medieval history teacher into a CEO and entrepreneur.
Peter Georgariou: And one spoiler alert, one B Corp that's giving away $10 million over 10 years to support female entrepreneurs. So stay tuned for an awesome show with Carolina Miranda, myself, and unfortunately Jeremy will be with us throughout the show. But you'll just have to deal with that. Carolina welcome to the podcast. We are beyond psyched to have you here. Jeremy has told me amazing things. I've read amazing things. So we're really psyched to be able to spend some time together for the next few minutes.
Carolina Miranda: Wonderful. Thank you for having me here.
Peter Georgariou: Yeah, it's great. It's a pleasure and a privilege. We'd love to hear a bit of your origin story, you know, where does Carolina Miranda come from and what led you to this life of service?
Carolina Miranda: Sure, I can tell you that it has been an unlikely journey. I never expected to go into business. In fact, when I was in college, when I was an English history, double major at a liberal arts college, I really expected to become a college professor focusing on medieval history. And then I ended up clearly not taking that path. And instead ended up going into a number of different fields. I was in publishing for a while, I was a teacher. And then I found myself working at the Red Cross, which was an organization that I really loved working for. As a humanitarian organization, I really believed in the mission. And I'm, you know, really a do-gooder at heart.
But while at Red Cross, I really realized that the non-profit sector didn't have the resources to affect the kind of change that I really wanted to see. Nor did I feel that I was personally prepared for being able to do the work that I wanted to do. And so what happened is I started really kind of thinking about, well, you know, what career path should I pursue? And, you know, what do I need to do to level up my own skills to really make a difference in this world? I had no interest in working for the government. And I knew I wasn't going to remain in the non-profit sector. So I started looking at how I could move into the private sector.
As part of that journey, I actually ended up going back to school, getting a degree focused on sustainable enterprise and business. And while I was there, I started thinking about, well, what do I do after school? You know, what is this going to look like? At the time, I was working for a small green business in Berkeley, California. I'm based here in the San Francisco Bay Area. And I really saw the potential in working with businesses and I started to get this crazy idea of starting my own consulting business and it ended up crazy, exactly, this crazy journey. And that was at the tail end of 2010 when I started the business. Here we are, it has pivoted numerous times and it has evolved. I've made so many mistakes, but I feel very good about this, you know, this path that I ended up embarking upon.
Peter Georgariou: Well, I'm glad that you're with Jeremy and I in the non-perfect club, so we feel better about that. You're not mistake free. So thank you for that.
Carolina Miranda: Not at all.
Peter Georgariou: Can you talk to us a little bit about your B Corp, Cultivating Capital?
Carolina Miranda: Sure, so Cultivating Capital is the company that I started more than a decade ago. And the focus was always on sustainability. And I ended up, as I started kind of figuring out my way in the consulting world, really honing in on best practices for small businesses, because the larger businesses have more resources. They can hire, you know, a chief sustainability officer, you know, impact officer, you know, whatever title it is that's used, you know, they have the resources, they can bring in outside consultants. But really, the small businesses are the ones that have bigger challenges in terms of knowing what to do, and then knowing how to do it. So that's really where I started focusing my attention.
And I really started looking at the B impact assessment as really the best tool to use because it does bring in a range of, you know, really good practices across key areas. So, you know, for small businesses, they don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel. Really, can look at what are the best practices that are out there and how can they bring those to their organizations? So when I was in grad school back in 2008, 2009, I had learned about B Corps, really just fell in love with the movement, recognize that it was really a movement that can drive systemic change. And so I had told my last employer at the time that, you know, they should get certified as a B Corp.
They ended up doing that. I was able to help with that process. And so, when I started Cultivating Capital, I knew from the beginning that it was going to be a B Corp. You do have to wait for one year before you can get certified because you have to have a track record. And so it wasn't until 2012 that I could actually complete the certification. So, you know, that's basically how Cultivating Capital got started. And, you know, now it's really in an exciting place. It was basically a one-woman shop for many years. And I've recently started growing the team. So in some ways, it's a ten-year-old start-up. Thank you. Because now we have a really wonderful team that's helping me to do the good work in the world that we're trying to do.
Jeremy Stayton: What drew you to B Corp? You know, we learned about it and what sounds like a very cool educational program that you're in. So you learned about it, and then decided that you wanted to do that, right, for your previous employer, and then also do that professionally. I'm assuming that there were a number of things you learned about, but what was it about this one that kind of pulled you in?
Carolina Miranda: That's a great question. So, you know, it helps to kind of think about it in context, you know, back in 2008, 2009, that's really when kind of sustainability was starting to reach, you know, broader mainstream awareness. And so everybody was talking about going green. And, you know, very quickly the term greenwashing entered the vernacular. And, you know, we realized that a lot of people were greenwashing. They were talking about these green practices that sounded good on the surface, but they weren't really making, you know, significant internal changes, either within the organization or, you know, in their supply chain or anything like that.
Jeremy Stayton: Would you be willing to give an example of greenwashing? Because I know the term, but I don't know that everybody's familiar with the term. Do you think you could just give a quick description of kind of, or some examples of some greenwashing?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So I think one example would be, for example, when companies would put something on their website saying we sell eco friendly products, right? And it's like, well, what does that mean? It sounds good. But what is the inherent - what are the inherent environmental attributes of that product? Right? Does it have recycled inputs? Are you tracking the amount of recycled inputs, right? Does it meet some type of third party certification? Like having organic inputs, for example, where you know that it's actually a product that was produced with inputs that generate fewer toxins.
So there are some specific ways that you could actually measure and manage the environmental benefits of the products that you're selling. But when companies are greenwashing, they're not necessarily doing any of that, right? They're just kind of putting this nice verbiage on their website that sounds good. And, you know, it will kind of draw customers in. Another example, you know, might be companies that will put something in their mission statement or, you know, on their About Us page saying, we are here to take care of the planet or, you know, taking care of the planet is important to us, but they're not necessarily looking at their carbon footprint, right? They might not even have like basic, you know, recycling diversion practices set up. So, you know, it's really when there is a disconnect between what a company is saying and what a company is actually doing.
Jeremy Stayton: I can think of some TV ads that used to run for BP, the British Petroleum. It would say beyond petroleum. And it would show like, beautiful nature and, you know, whatever, fuel cell technology and wind turbines and meanwhile, you know, they’re oil company.
Carolina Miranda: Yeah.
Peter Georgariou: They're selling the dream. They're selling the dream, Jeremy.
Carolina Miranda: That's another great example.
Jeremy Stayton: So yeah, sorry to derail. So you were filling us in about the path of Cultivating Capital. So kind of the times, right? The, right after the econ-apocalypse of 2008, and nine, and the sustainability movement, and moving right into, you know, this greenwashing. And then…
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, and then kind of, you know, into this wild west of, there's no rules around sustainability and being green. B Lab started putting forth this idea that there should actually be some clear and transparent standards, you know, that it should actually mean something very tangible when a company says that they are acting in a way that is socially and environmentally responsible. And they, so they introduced the standards, so that it wasn't any more just a matter of, you know, companies saying that they're doing good, and maybe, you know, one company is doing it, another company isn't. But it actually became something that could be very clearly and objectively measured.
And then that, of course, was paired with having a third party actually vet those practices, right? So that it isn't just the company making its own claims, but it's actually an independent organization, being able to verify that the company is actually doing that. And so when I saw that, for me, I was like this is it. This is what's needed. This is what businesses need in order to know that they are implementing some good practices in their organization. And this is what consumers need to actually be able to kind of separate those from, you know, who are talking the talk from those who are just, those who are walking the walk versus those who are talking the talk.
And then, you know, shortly thereafter, shortly after the companies started, getting certified B Lab actually did something that for me was even more important and more significant, which is they started introducing a legal requirement. Because prior to the introduction of benefit corporations, there were really only a couple of options for companies, right? You could set up as a C Corp as an S Corp, you could also set up as an LLC, but none of those actually prioritize and place stakeholders at the center of a company's decisions. And so, you know, B Lab was instrumental in really driving that change. And now there's, you know, benefit corporation legislation in just over 30 states, I believe. I don't have the exact number. But it's something that, you know, did not exist until B Corps actually started driving that and making that a requirement for certification.
So, again, in terms of looking at how do we drive systemic change, and being able to identify, you know, what are those mechanisms that are really going to, you know, yield significant results, addressing legal entities is a key way of doing that. So, you know, those were the reasons why I believed back then and continue to believe now that, you know, this is really the key movement to really bring about change in our society.
Peter Georgariou: I feel Carolina you're going back 2012, you’re like a B Corp OG and Jeremy's in and we at KarmaDharma are in the process this year, as you know, of applying. But a lot of people out there, the B Corp brand isn't known by everyone. Nor there is B Lab or the assessment. Maybe could you just give, for the people who aren't in the know, a little bit of an overview of B Lab, B Corp, assessment, just what that is?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah, I sometimes am so immersed in the space that, you know, I don’t always define my terms before I just launch in and start using them. B Corp certification is a third party certification that measures a company's impact on all stakeholders. When we talk about stakeholders, it's really a significant shift in terms of how we can think about who a company is impacting. Because traditionally, a company only really had to think about shareholders and, you know, obviously, you know, people who just own shares of a company, the owners.
But by shifting the lens to stakeholders, it's really calling upon the business to take a more holistic look at what it's doing. So how is it touching employees, customers, you know, members of a local community, the environment, suppliers? Basically anybody who has a stake in how that company operates. And so B Corps are basically looking at their impact upon all stakeholders and trying to make that a positive one.
The way that they get certified is they have to complete the B Impact Assessment, which is an online tool that can be freely used by anybody, you don't have to be a B Corp to use it. But you can go in and use it. And it basically has a lot of questions that asked about a company's practices. And as a company answers those questions in the affirmative, based upon what they're doing, then they start to earn points. And then when they earn points that get up to 80, they can then submit their assessment for certification to B Lab. B Lab is the non-profit behind the B Corp movement. And so, they will review the assessments that come in, they will assign a standards analyst to each company. And that analyst is basically responsible for verifying a company's answers.
So they don't just assume that everybody has answered everything accurately. But they will go in and make sure that everything can be verified. And then when the analyst verifies at least 80 points worth of information, then the company can be certified and the certification is valid for three years. And at that point, a company does need to recertify in order to maintain its certification.
Jeremy Stayton: And just for a little bit of context for people, could you just speak to what Cultivating Capital does? So your role in this world that you are immersed in?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, so we do two things. On a very practical level, what we do is we help companies to get certified and recertified. So if a company wants to get certified, but you know, maybe they're not sure exactly what it might look like for them to bring these practices into the organization. They're, you know, not sure about what the process is. They're looking for some assistance in those areas. Then that's what we do, you know, we help them to understand what the best practices are as reflected on the impact assessment to identify the ones that makes sense for their business. And then to be able to put all the information together so that they can go through the certification process, you know, in as smooth manner as possible.
On another level, I would say that what we do is really support the movement as a whole. So there's B Corps all around the world, just under 5000, at the time of this recording. And, you know, there's - it's really something that is happening on a global level. And yet, you know, as Peter just mentioned, a lot of people don't yet know about B Corps. And so, you know, there's really a lot of work to be done to just raise awareness, to bring people into the movement. And that is something that is a big part of what we do. And it really is in recognition of the fact that this is a long game, you know, we might help one company get certified this year. And that's wonderful, we're happy to do that. But to really change our economic system so that it works for everyone is something that is most likely going to take decades. And that's a long game for us.
Peter Georgariou: You mean we're not going to move away from profits overnight? You're killing me here.
Carolina Miranda: Well, we don't have to move away from profits. We just have to, you know, put other things on par with profits. And yeah, unfortunately, at least here in the US, I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Peter Georgariou: Well, we're up here in Canada, and we're a little more left of center than down there in the US. And it still might take us some time to put people in purpose first. I'm not anti-profits. Clearly B Corps are for profit do-gooders. But maybe balancing the love we're sending to all the stakeholders may take a little bit of time.
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, yeah, I think it is something that's going to take a lot of time, you know, it took time to get this economic system in place. And it's going to take time for it to change as well. But I think that you guys in Canada are a bit ahead of us over here.
Peter Georgariou: We hug a good tree up here, Carolina, I'll tell you that collectively. I talked to my family in the US and they - I try not to get into politics because they just think we're a hair away from being communists up here. So, can you tell us a little bit how the B Corp world has changed over the past five years? I'm sure it's evolved from when you were starting to now. Whether it's, you know, we see it from EDI becoming a hot topic or, you know, environmental sustainable and governance becoming a hot topic. At least it's becoming, I'm not going to say fully mainstream, but part of a lot of conversations other than paying lip service to corporate social responsibility. So maybe you could tell us how has the B Corp landscape transformed itself or evolved over the past few years?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, you know, the first thing that has changed is there's just so much more awareness now. And it's kind of funny to say that because a lot of people would say that B Corps aren't well known. And it's true, they're not well known. But if you look at how well known they are now, compared to five years ago, you know, there really has been a very significant shift, I think we're starting to reach the tipping point in terms of, you know, awareness around B Corps.
Another thing that I think has changed is it's getting attention from larger companies, you know, like, [Danone] is, you know, now a B Corp, you know, they have several of their subsidiaries that are B Corps. That was not the case a few years ago. And so one of the benefits of having these larger multinationals starting to pay attention to the B Corp movement, is that, you know, now, it's really just kind of raising the conversation and just kind of bringing up a lot more awareness around mainstream consumers that wasn't necessarily there before. You know, as far as the specific practices, you know, the standard that B Corps follow, I think there's definitely been an evolution in that regard as well. And that's really something that is going to continue because the standards are being continually evaluated.
So one of the things that B Lab is looking at now is shifting from using the impact assessment as kind of the sole source of evaluating a company's practices, to actually having some very clear standards in specific areas. So for example, they're looking at having 10 standards that all companies must meet in order to become a B Corp. And this includes things like paying living wages, for example, or having an environmental management system. So they're starting to get very specific about things that all B Corps would have to do. Because the way it's set up right now, one company may get to 80 because they have really strong environmental practices, but maybe they're not so strong in the worker section. Whereas another company may get to 80 because they have really outstanding worker practices. But maybe they're not doing as much on the environmental side.
And so, B Lab is looking to really standardize that. And it is going to be a big change in terms of what it means to be a B Corp. And at the same time, I think that the reason why they're doing it, which is really important, I think it makes a lot of sense, because they're really looking at collective impact. So if all B Corps are paying living wages, for example, or if all B Corps are implementing certain JEDI practices, justice, equity, diversity and inclusion, then that means that collectively we can have a bigger impact than if, you know, some B Corps are doing one thing and other B Corps are doing another thing.
Peter Georgariou: Makes sense. Makes sense. Just as a small note, and this is a Canadian reference. But, speaking of the transition to business, the Business Development Bank of Canada, which is an arm's length government organization up here, which supports entrepreneurs. So this is the bank where entrepreneurs go because the traditional banks won’t lend to them, they're too high risk, are a certified B Corp. So the people lending to people growing new businesses at their heart of hearts are do-gooders. Which I just find amazing for a government organization up here.
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, no, that's great. And I know that the BDC has been doing a lot of good work with Canadian B Corps. So that's awesome.
Jeremy Stayton: Yeah, I'm curious if the [Danone], for example, there's a few other, you know, kind of big multinationals, aren't brands that jump to my mind when I think of sustainability.
Peter Georgariou: Good point.
Jeremy Stayton: So it's interesting, you know, whether or not the new standards would impact that dramatically or not?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, you know, [Danone’s] an interesting example because Evian actually got certified as a B Corp. And, of course, you know, as a sustainability consultant, what comes to my mind is, you know, well, they're selling bottled water, right? Like bottled water is just –
Jeremy Stayton: Plastic bottles everywhere.
Carolina Miranda: The number one example of, you know, lack of sustainability, in their case B LAB, or not just in their case, but in general, B LAB does actually require companies in certain industries to provide disclosures if there's anything that can be a little sensitive in terms of how they're operating or products. And so [Danone] and for their Evian certification, they did actually have to fill out a public disclosure for B Lab, and they did have to address the fact that, you know, plastic water bottles are their main product. It's been a while since I've looked at it. So I can't give too much information. I don't want to quote anything about it. But I think that they were doing some other kind of practices to kind of offset that, you know, impact. I think they were using, you know, recycled plastic. And they were kind of trying to, you know, trying to be good stewards in terms of water practices.
Jeremy Stayton: But switching to kind of the opposite end of the spectrum. So you have a unique perspective, because you interface with tons of companies that are on this path of, you know, using business to do good in the world. Curious, what are some of the most inspirational companies or leaders that you've come across, you know, that have kept you going doing this?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, I’m really fortunate that almost every client I work with inspires me in some way. And, you know, almost every colleague that I work with also inspires me in some way. It's really what keeps me going, especially in light of all this negative, you know, information that we're unfortunately surrounded by, in many ways.
Peter Georgariou: She doesn't want to pick favourites, Jeremy, she doesn't want to pick favourites. I’m seeing this.
Carolina Miranda: But I do have one, I do have one that I'll share. And it's really a wonderful company that is doing great work. The company is called Frank and Eileen, and they actually sell women's button down shirts. And the CEO, Audrey McLoghlin, got very inspired by going through the impact assessment. And one of the things that we were looking at is actually kind of formalizing, you know, a giving commitment. And what she decided to do was to give 10 million dollars over a 10-year period to support women entrepreneurs. And that was just really inspiring, because it definitely went above and beyond what B Corps are required to do, you know, it went above and beyond what she needed to do to be certified as a B Corp. But she really tapped into kind of the potential and the opportunity that came up by going through this process, you know, making a commitment like that.
Certainly, yes, it does help on the impact assessment. But think of like these women entrepreneurs that are going to be receiving ongoing support from Frank and Eileen, you know, this could really make a big difference for them. And it's really something that could just have an impact for years, decades to come. And, you know, when I look at that, I just, I don't even know if inspired captures what I feel by seeing a woman entrepreneur make a commitment like that, that is just going to have these ripple effects in future. And, you know, that's probably, you know, one of the most, one of the greatest examples that I've seen. But there's things that I see like just on a day-to-day basis.
You know, another client that I worked with, a small company works in an industry where, you know, there's very thin margins, and a lot of the employees are immigrants. And she was already trying to pay best salaries that she could, but again, there were thin margins. And yet, she really just decided, as we were going through the impact assessment, to increase, you know, worker salaries. And that was really a wonderful step for her to take, because it was not an easy decision to make. But yet, you know, it was something that was going to have a direct and positive impact on these workers who really didn't have too many other employment opportunities that would have paid them what she was committing to pay them. So it's decisions that I see like that being made on a regular basis, you know, by companies that really just give me hope on so many levels.
Jeremy Stayton: Yeah, it seems like the overall movement is, you mentioned earlier, like reaching a tipping point. It just really seems like there's a lot more activity and maybe more backlog and overwhelm of the B Lab organization for, you know, in terms of supply and demand, in terms of what they can support and the number of people that want to do good, which is heartening. Is that just - are you seeing that too? Or is that just kind of my little echo chamber of being in the B Corp community? I’d be curious to get your perspective on kind of the movement as a whole.
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, I mean, I think definitely, it is reaching this tipping point. One of the interesting things was 2020 was such a challenging year on so many levels. And yet, I think it really started to enter people's awareness on a much deeper level that B Corp certification was a very tangible way to address, you know, all of these problems that we saw around us. So, you know, certainly you started to see who were the frontline workers and how were they kind of bearing the brunt of, you know, the pandemic in ways that, you know, other people were not. And then certainly, you know, with all of the social unrest, you know, after the murder of George Floyd that summer, you know, that also raised people's awareness about systemic racism in a way that it did not exist, really, prior to that.
And obviously, I'm speaking from a very US centric perspective here. But, you know, those two things really kind of catalyzed awareness. And I would say, motivation and urgency to really have companies look at, you know, what is it that they can do? And so, you know, that's one of the reasons why, since 2020, B Lab has seen an increase in the number of submissions that they're receiving, you know, it's one of the reasons why now, more people are talking about B Corps, because B Corp certification alone is not going to solve all the problems, but it is a very tangible path for companies to take, if they do want to directly address some of these fundamental issues that we're seeing.
And so, I think that we are kind of reaching a point as a society where the role of the private sector is more and more important. Consumers are paying more attention, millennials are paying more attention, business owners are paying more attention. And so, I don't see us going back to a point where these issues are no longer part of the discussion the way that they are now, you know. If anything, I only see it going forward.
Peter Georgariou: Becoming the norm.
Jeremy Stayton: Yeah, Peter, to your earlier comment about, you know, having to give up on profit, I see this as the only sustainable model. In the future, hopefully, the future that I want to live in, is that businesses have to do good.
Peter Georgariou: And you're part of co-creating. And if consumers start supporting that and start voting with their wallets, which more and more people are, I don't think the level of conscious - it would be hard to deny that the level of consciousness of consumers has ever been higher. I mean, it can always get better, clearly, and not everybody's light has been turned on. But, you know, as a whole, people wanting to buy responsibly and taking a look at people's why they're doing what they're doing and how they're doing what they're doing has never been - I've never talked about it more. And it's not because I'm in this incestuous bubble of do-gooders.
I'm just saying, in general, you hear people want to get educated and don't want to support, you know, offloading junk to beaches in Pakistan and poisoning kids and whatever that might be. Right? You know, it's, I think people are there and want to be there. And people like Carolina, well, you're helping educate that process, right?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to do my part. And I do think that a lot of people are there. There's more awareness, like, even if we just look at awareness around eating healthy, right? Like, the way that people are paying attention to what they eat now is completely different from what it was 10 years ago. And so, the fact that, you know, B Corps, a lot are offering products, you know, that are like, you know, organic or pesticide free or non GMO or things like that, you know, it is going to help them to get their products in front of this audience. I also think, though, that, you know, realistically, there are going to be some people that, for whatever reason, are never going to necessarily come around. Maybe because it's just not important to them, or it's just not something that, you know, they are going to prioritize, and that's fine.
I think that that's just being realistic about the world that we live in. You never get 100% of the people on board with something. So, you know, my approach has always been, how do you support those people that are at least open to supporting these practices within their own companies and to supporting, you know, these types of companies through their own purchases, right? In an ideal world, everybody would buy B Corps products all the time. In the real world, you know, we need to get as many people as possible to do that and understand that, you know, it's unlikely to ever be 100%. And that's OK. That's OK.
Peter Georgariou: We can strive for it, though. We can strive for it.
Carolina Miranda: Absolutely, absolutely.
Peter Georgariou: Do you have any - you talked about us, about Frank and Eileen, and your other example of your client. So selfishly, we would, if ever they'd love to come on the podcast, we’d love to chat with them and amplify their voice and story. But do you see any, any success stories you've seen? Just these amazing, you know, B Corps just kicking ass and taking names out there?
Carolina Miranda: Gosh. OK, this is going to be a case where there's going to be so many that I'm not going to be able to think of one to highlight.
Peter Georgariou: And we won't blame you. Maybe just anything that comes to mind? And we would like to tell as a disclaimer to all of your clients who've worked with you, this doesn't mean you love whoever you're going to talk about more. Just happens to mean you remember them on the spot in the podcast, that it came to mind under pressure.
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, let me think for a moment.
Jeremy Stayton: The painting behind you distracted her, Peter.
Peter Georgariou: Jeremy gives me hell for it. My old man painting here, back here, over here so.
Carolina Miranda: Well, I think it's actually nice and comfortable. Nice and colourful there.
Peter Georgariou: Thank you Carolina. Thank you. Need a little support here for my painting. Alright back to you and serious business here Carolina. I think you were going to say something much more relevant than Jeremy.
Carolina Miranda: It's hard to think about serious business with that painting behind you though.
Peter Georgariou: OK, now you're on the bandwagon.
Carolina Miranda: Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Peter Georgariou: I’m leaving. This is, no, I’m kidding. Jeremy's corrupted you.
Jeremy Stayton: It got commented on in the first episode too, so it’s going to come up.
Peter Georgariou: I’m going to have to get a second one if this keeps going.
Carolina Miranda: So OK, I'm going to choose actually one client that I'm working with right now who is not yet a B Corp. But she is well on her way to becoming a B Corp. And she's just doing some really cool work. The company's name is [Descansa?]. And what she does, is she actually sources fabrics from traditional weavers in El Salvador and Guatemala. And she's a designer. And so she actually makes the designs for clothing. She brings those textiles to North Carolina where she has them sewn by local seamstresses, many of whom are Latino immigrants. And then she actually sells this product, you know, to consumers, you know, here in the US.
But what I really love about what she's doing is there's so much thoughtfulness and so much intentionality, in terms of her production process, and everything that she is doing to bring this clothing to consumers. And that's such a different model from what we're used to, which is, you know, having textiles, you know, that are sourced without consideration for the environment, or for the people working in the factories who are often overseas, you know, that are then sold, you know, at a low price point, and eventually end up in the landfill. And so, you know, you contrast that, you know, that kind of fast fashion, unsustainable model with what [Descansa] is doing and it's just completely different.
And, you know, and she is just a wonderful young entrepreneur, who is building this business and making it happen, because it's something that she, you know, believes in wholeheartedly. And so I'm just very honoured to be able to, you know, to support her in joining the B Corp community so that, you know, she can use that as a way to, you know, tap into the community, get, you know, build a better network, build a strong network that can really support her. And then also, you know, be able to leverage that, you know, as she grows the company. So, you know, that's definitely one thing that, you know, I'm just very excited about right now, you know, in terms of the clients that I'm working with. But all my clients are doing exciting work, so I can probably keep you here, you know, all afternoon just sharing more stories.
Peter Georgariou: I'm going to say you love them all equally, just so we spread that. Just like your kids, nobody gets special treatment here. As we come close to the end here, Carolina, we have a couple questions for you. One is, as you well know, when you go through the assessment and the certification, you have to put - have or put all these policies in place. So whether you're a B Corp or not, is there one policy or procedure you think every company, B Corp or not, should have? Like a go-to must for every organization out there?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, I would say, it's not, well I guess it is a policy, but it's more than a policy. Everything's going to be more than a policy at the end of the day. Right?
Peter Georgariou: Good point.
Carolina Miranda: So, I would say living wage is key. I think everybody should be paying a living wage. You know, maybe 15 years ago, people didn't know that, you know, people, and I'm not pointing fingers, but just collectively, you know, we weren't necessarily thinking about living wages, you know, the way that we are now. And now we know, at least here in the US, you know, the federal minimum wage is just nowhere near being enough for a living wage and -
Peter Georgariou: What is living wage? How do you define that, Carolina? How do you define that, so for people who don't - I mean, I think people have heard it or may or may not have heard of it, but how do you define a living wage?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, I mean, it's basically what a person needs to earn to be able to have their basic needs for like food and shelter met in a given area. So, the important thing to realize is that the living wage is going to be different in a place that has a high cost of living compared to a place that doesn't, right? So for example, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. The cost of living here is among the highest in the country. So what it takes to actually pay for an apartment and buy groceries here is going to be very different than what it might be almost anywhere else in the US, right, except for New York City.
So the living wage is not static, across a country or even necessarily across a state. It's very, it's hyper local in some ways. And you can't just rely on federal minimum wage to ensure that people are going to be able to pay for food and shelter. That's why you have companies that are paying the federal minimum wage, but yet they have workers who are working full time and still qualify for public benefits. Because their, you know, their pay is just so low.
So I think that one of the most important things that any company can do right now is pay a living wage. And this reflects my own personal values. I am, by background and training, a sustainability consultant. But a big part of my focus is really on the social impact. Not just what are we doing to preserve the environment for seven generations from now. That's important. I absolutely believe that we do need to think about that. But I don't want us to lose sight of what can we do to help the people who are here right now. And so that's why, you know, the living wage is just one very basic step all companies can look to take to help.
Peter Georgariou: Amen to that.
Jeremy Stayton: I love that. I love that businesses that are doing good, typically the founder, whoever kind of got them on that path, has their own passion around some cause or some, seeing some good manifest in a specific way. And I love that doing business with those businesses means that my spending money with them manifests their vision. And because I'm seeing a lot of this in the B2B space, other companies coming to us and they’re B Corps and they want to do business with B Corps, and we’re B Corp. And that, you know, we're planting trees to offset their IT, right? So we're doing an environmental piece and responsibly disposing of their e-waste, and, you know, moving towards this employee ownership.
And so they spend dollars with us knowing that that's the benefit that they get. And then we get to turn around and spend dollars with our vendors, knowing that they're doing things like providing 10 million dollars to women entrepreneurs over the next decade, or whatever it is. Like, I just love that I know that my dollars, our company's dollars are going there, to all of these different things that are tied to people's individual passions.
Peter Georgariou: It feels good.
Jeremy Stayton: Which is why it’s so great to talk to you. Because then we get to hear about your piece, right? So the social side, even though you support all the B Corps on their path, or the aspiring B Corps on their path. You know, you also have your own kind of interest side too, right?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, absolutely. And I liked the way that, you know, you framed it around like B Corps working with other B Corps because it's basically another level of the voting with your dollars that Peter mentioned, right? It's like we vote with our dollars as consumers. And certainly I have B Corp milk in the refrigerator right now. Right? And I'm always looking to buy B Corp products just in my day-to-day life. Right? And yet, the purchasing that we do through our businesses is just another level of that. And so, you know, I think it's important for all of us to support those companies that we know that are aligned with our values, because there's plenty out there that just are not.
Jeremy Stayton: Yeah. B Corp milk sounds like it would be green, but.
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, technically. Technically, it's by a company that’s certified as a B Corp.
Peter Georgariou: Don't encourage him, Carolina. Don't encourage him here. You have any exciting projects? So one last question is any exciting projects you're working on that you'd like to share with the audience?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, so one of the things that I am working on, and it's just about ready to go, it's just a matter of kind of fine tuning it. Is, we're rolling out a program to provide pro bono support to women of colour entrepreneurs to help them get their companies certified as B Corps. And so, our commitment is to be working with two entrepreneurs at a time. So we are working with two right now. And just yesterday, I was speaking with a young lady doing really good work. We're not yet working together. So I don't want to mention anything about it. But she's probably going to be the third pro bono client that we’ll take on as part of this program.
And my idea is, it would be wonderful to just have this be a continuing part of what we do, because I believe wholeheartedly in this movement, and I want to make sure being able to provide support is not determined by a company's ability to pay. You know, obviously, you know, we have to pay the team, you know, we have our own giving commitments, and so on. And so yes, you know, you do obviously, you know, make money from the services that you offer, and we try to offer a number of different options for clients at different price points. But even so, it is cost prohibitive sometimes for, you know, a young company that's just getting started to hire a consultant.
And so we want to just remove that as a barrier, and just be able to help them. And then, as part of that, I'm also helping to identify partners who can pay the certification fee for the first year for the women that we work with. So we'll offer the pro bono support but then you still have to pay fees to B Lab when you get certified. And so, I have a couple of partners lined up that are ready to cover those fees for these young women. So that's exciting.
Peter Georgariou: I would like to throw KarmaDharma’s name in that hat from the sense of if, we do pro bono work as well for some charities, we do a lot of work in the not for profit space and few B Corps. But, how about this, Carolina. As a payback for you coming to spend a little time with Jeremy and I, I'd love to support one of the people you're supporting. If they need a little marketing support or a little design support. If we can give them a little push to share their story out in the world. I'd be down for that.
Carolina Miranda: Well, thank you. That's a very generous offer and I'll definitely take you up on that.
Peter Georgariou: Deal. That is a deal.
Jeremy Stayton: I can't let Peter one up me so, I'm going to throw into the ring. I’m going to get you a replica of the painting that is hanging behind Peter.
Peter Georgariou: Oh my god. This frigging painting. I’m going to have nightmares about this painting now. You said, I love this painting, and not it’s just dying a slow death here. Carolina, where is the best place people can reach you or support you, find you? Where can we send them?
Carolina Miranda: Yeah, best thing to do is to go to the website, which is cultivatingcapital.com And we have a contact form there. If anybody fills that out, then one of my team members will review it and pass it on to me. Or you can also just connect with me directly on LinkedIn.
Peter Georgariou: Awesome. This has been superb. I'm so excited that you came. For the people just listening, I have my cheeks hurt because I've had this perma-grin of inspiration like this whole time just listening to like amazing shit happening in the world and the great things you're putting back out there and setting the example for people. So tremendous gratitude for you coming to see us and spending some time with us, Carolina.
Jeremy Stayton: Thank you. Until next time.
Carolina Miranda: Thanks again for having me here. It was fun.